M: Now both the government and the opposition party agreed that state schools are not good enough.
M: And the Opposition is coming up with some new proposals of their own to improve them.
M: But is their approach really all that different from the government's?
M: Today we have Theresa May, the shadow education secretary from the Opposition with us on the radio show.
M: Good afternoon, Theresa.
W: Good afternoon.
M: Can I remind you of what John Major said only a few years ago when he was Prime Minister?
M: He said we should give people opportunity and choice.
M: We don't mean some people. I mean everyone, opportunity for all. Well, that is precisely what the present government is saying, opportunity for all.
W: The hallmark of this government is that what they say and what they actually do is always different. And that's no different in education.
W: What we see from the present government is that they may talk about opportunity for all,
W: they may talk about choice, but actually they are cutting opportunity and reducing choice.
W: And what I think is most damaging is that actually they are giving a message
W: Don't bother. If you are from a state school, there are barriers to be put in your place. But this is far from the truth.
W: Universities have been doing a very great deal to encourage state school pupils to apply.
W: The point is that we still haven't got enough state school pupils applying to our leading universities.
M: But your government had 18 years to get more of them into Oxbridge.
W: And indeed we increased the number of young people in this country going to university, from one in eight to one in three.
W: The number of state pupils being accepted by Oxford and Cambridge and other leading universities, the proportion of state pupils has actually increased.
W: But there is a problem in many of our secondary schools - of expectations.
W: And it is the present government that has been leveling down expectations rather than raising them.
男：现在，政府和反对党都认为公立学校不够好。
男：反对派也提出了一些新的建议来改善公立学校的情况。
男：但他们的方法真的与政府不同吗?
男：今天，反对党的影子内阁教育大臣，特蕾莎·梅来到了我们节目中。
男：下午好，特蕾莎。
女：下午好。
男：还记得约翰·梅杰几年前担任总理时所说的话吗?
男：他说我们应该给人们机会和选择。
男：我们不是指某些人。我是说每个人都有机会。这正是当前政府所说的，为所有人提供机会。
女：当今政府的一大特点就是说一套做一套，在教育方面也是这样。
女：我们经常看到现在的政府谈到为所有人提供机会。
女：谈到让人们有更多选择，但是其实他们正在减少机会和选择。
女：我认为最具破坏性的是实际上他们在传递这样的信息：
女：不用挣扎了。如果你上了一所公立学校，那么你一定会遇到障碍。但这远非事实。
女：许多大学一直在做大量工作来鼓励公立学校的学生申请。
女：问题是，申请一流大学的公立学校学生还不是很多。
男：可是反对党政府18年中都未能有效增加牛津剑桥里公立学校学生的比例。
女：事实上，我们提高了年轻人是大学入学比例，从八分之一提高到三分之一。
女：被牛津、剑桥等一流大学录取的公立学校学生数量实际上增加了，比例也在提高。
女：但我们的许多中学都有一个问题——期望。
女：现在的政府是在降低人们的期望，而不是提高期望。
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